Live! From Tileyard London in King’s Cross, join our host, MD Tony Hallett, for a live audience Q&A interview with Dolby Lead Copywriter, and content leader, Judson Hamilton. With Dolby tech in billions of devices around the world, hear what role AI plays in content, how to create effective messaging, and what films really do have the best sound.

In our Sense-maker Sessions we interview content leaders to get you all the answers to make content work best for you.

Episode transcript:

Bill: In content marketing, sometimes you just need someone to make sense of it all. In this series, we’re joined by industry leaders sharing their tips, advice, and expert knowledge on what good content is and does.

This episode is recorded in front of a live audience at Tileyard London, with our host collective Content MD, Tony Hallett and today’s guest and content leader, Dolby laboratories lead copywriter Judson Hamilton.

You’re joining us just after the audience has seen a Dolby promotional video featuring Ed Sheeran performing his song ‘Magical’.

Welcome to the Collective Content podcast: Sense-maker Sessions.

Tony: Well, hello everyone and welcome. That’s an unusual intro for us, I must say. So, this is a live recording, I should say for people tuning in later, we have an audience today. And I’ve always wanted to follow a big star like that as an intro. I’m here to do a very brief intro, and mainly first welcome to stage today’s interviewee.

You know, full disclosure, he’s on the client side for us and someone we’ve worked with for a number of years now.

So, Judson Hamilton, please come to the stage as well.

Get yourself comfy.

Judson: Thank you. Hello, everyone.

Tony: Welcome, Judson. It’s good to have you here. We’re going to be talking a lot today about Dolby, about your role there, about the company, the relevance of campaigns like the one you just got a bit of a glimpse into behind us. We’re going to be talking about partnering and partner content that helps partner marketing. We’re also going to talk generally about the role of content and, and what works, what doesn’t work.

We’re going to get into the craft of what we do, which some of you will know we kind of always do, at our collective content events. We’ll be talking about, AI a little bit too. And then some agency/client. To start off with, I mean, I wanted to just delve a little bit back into the history of Dolby and history of you.

So, so we have, some of you who have spoken to Judson already know that Judson is originally from the US. He’s from Texas. But an American in Europe. So an American in London now, But you usually live in Poland, right? So, how did that happen? How did you end up in Europe, if I may ask?

Judson: I came over to Europe just after I had graduated from college, like a lot of Americans do, I guess. And, I just really enjoyed it. So each time that I went back to the States, I was looking for an angle to come back over, and, I found a job teaching English in Wrocław, Poland, which is where I’m still based. And I did that for a number of years before moving on to copyediting, that I did with, Cambridge University Press, Taylor and Francis and a bunch of other academic publishers.

Tony: Okay.

Judson: And then I found the job at Dolby.

Tony: Okay. So your content background was through sort of publishing houses, that side of things.

Judson: Right.

Tony: And we’re lucky to have you here. So I don’t know how many people know, this company I believe is 60 years old this year. Nice to always have companies that are older than me. Although I know that there are some represented in the audience, that are even older. So yeah, in the world of tech and tech related.

Wow.

And Ray Dolby, so Ray Dolby was actually an American who found himself in the UK. So Dolby has this interesting Anglo-American heritage, and that’s where some of the first technologies were developed, and where some of the first companies to start using, Dolby for, I guess, for music and very soon after film.

Judson: Yeah. It all started with noise reduction. So I just saw a quote from him, in the London office here that’s on the wall there. I won’t try to give you a direct quote, but, it was that he wanted nothing more than for the sound that went into the microphone to come out without any other nonsense in between.

So it was just trying to get noise reduction down. And I think that’s one of the – that was the initial thing that started the company.

Tony: That’s a great line.

And yeah, musicians, filmmakers, so many people in the consumer tech industry have loved Dolby over the years. And the actual, venue we find ourselves in today is a bit of, a shrine because it’s Dolby equipped and all kinds of music and interesting audio events here and in this wider campus, if you didn’t know that anyone.

So, I wanted to say then through, I guess through the 70s, there were some big film milestones. So, I’m just saying this as a film geek myself, but just because it is kind of relevant to the history of the company. So ‘A clockwork Orange’, ‘Star Wars’, ‘Close Encounters of the Third Kind’. These are all breakthrough films. ‘Apocalypse Now’, that was at the very end of the 70s.

And in cinema terms, you’re talking about the technology in the premises, the actual cinema, movie theatres, and then also these days, also the making of all that kind of media, which includes streaming today, like Netflix, etc. There are, essentially what we’re getting to here, is you guys work with loads of people.

Judson: Yes. Yeah.

Tony: And so, so explain to us on the on the partner side across devices, media, tell us that some of the categories because I forget all of them.

Judson: Yeah. So I don’t know the exact number, but there’s at least a billion devices worldwide that have Dolby technology in them. So that’s a lot of partners. And that’s across TV, movies, music, games, sports, cloud solutions and other things like that. So, it’s also with some of the biggest partners as well. So, you know, your Apple’s, Netflix, also increasingly in cars now that Dolby Atmos is in cars.

Yeah I think.

A lot of partners.

Tony: Yeah. So a billion easily makes sense when you think about handsets, think about automotive, streaming.

Judson: Soundbars, TVs, phones.

Tony: Soundbars, TVs. Yeah. And I know we’ve spoken a little bit about, I mean what we want to get into here is – and then you’ve got the audience. Right. So the people who are consuming music, film, you name it.

In any of those situations. So if we think about it, Dolby has this partnering, this ecosystem view where you have multiple partners down one side and any of them on any particular day, and the kind of B2B conversations you’ll have.

But then we also know Dolby is a consumer brand because we’re all consumers of this entertainment. Won’t say this ‘stuff’, that sounds a bit derogatory, not meant to be at all.

And so I guess I wanted to talk about, so how does that work? How do you keep consistent, is I guess my first big question, if you’ve got the Dolby voice, how do you keep consistent when you’re dealing with 12 other categories of partner company, hundreds of actual companies that are partnering with you?

Judson: Well, I think it’s really about just having a really good foundational voice and tone, which is something that we said early on.

And then keeping that voice and tone as you work across the different categories. So I’m lucky to work with a lot of really great product managers. And they often bring, the category that they’re responsible for.

So they’ll often bring something to me that they are working on with a partner. And then we work together.

Tony: Okay. But you you’re still the arbiter of the words. I mean, they bring that deep product knowledge and partnership. And we know, some of these other companies might be clients, but we know in general they all have their style guides. They all have the way they like to do things. They will have a version of you.

Judson: Yeah. I think it just starts with anytime you’re working with a partner like that, there’s obviously things like partners, sensitivities, and if you’re working with multiple partners, like with the Love More campaign, for example, then there can be multiple sensitivities. So you just want to keep those things in mind and try to see where you can bring value.

And I know it sounds a little corny, but it is a partnership. So you need to listen first what it is that they need, and then to try to find a way that you can pair with that. So that’s the most important thing I would say.

Tony: I said there would be some relevance for our kind of cold open with Mr. Sheeran. And that was part of the Love More campaign that you’ve detailed. I think that video’s from like 18 months ago, a bit longer. And I think you’ve called it a campaign to stretch all categories. Let’s talk a bit more about that.

Judson: Yeah. So the Love More campaign is Dolby’s first ever, I believe, global brand awareness campaign. And it stretches across all those categories I mentioned earlier.

So we started with Ed Sheeran in music, Jennifer Lopez. Then in movies we did Dune, Halo Infinite in music. Oh, sorry. With, Halo Infinite in games. And there’s the Halo movie, I think.

And, it’s probably one more I’m leaving out there, but.

Tony: But, I mean, and a movie like Dune where the sound engineering is such a big part of that film.

Judson: Yes. A massive part of the film.

Tony: Yeah. I mean, Zimmer’s involved. I mean it’s just – if anyone has seen it or not seen it, it’s just the sound is a big part of it.

Judson: Sounds a big part of it. And I think the campaign was a way for us to show that you can have all of these immersive experiences in Dolby, for the consumer, who may not be aware of that, actually.

Tony: Yeah. And that’s part of the purpose of the campaign.

Judson: That’s part of the purpose.

Tony: Because a lot of people didn’t realise you have, like Dolby Atmos in your phone.

Judson: Absolutely.

Tony: Yeah. Okay.

Judson: It’s also a chance to showcase our partners that we work with. So on the landing page, you know, we’d work with, you know, a streaming platform and a device, company as well.

It was a lot of work, but I think it was worth it.

Tony: Yeah, absolutely. And some of the relevance for us today with, a lot of people we work with in partner marketing, you’re dealing with several parties and some of them aren’t household names.

And I wanted to touch on two things here. So one side of it is how does Dolby remain a brand when so many other constituent brands in that ecosystem we just don’t know.

I mean, in the industry, you would know them. But for us as consumers, we have all heard of Dolby. How has that happened over so many decades?

Judson: That’s a tricky question, but I guess it really comes down to the quality of the technology. I mean, I think it really does come down to the innovative side of Dolby and the things that they do – the rooms that they don’t let me into, I can tell you. So sort of behind closed doors.

Tony: It’s the rooms they don’t let you out of, you’ve got to avoid.

Judson: Yes, exactly. Once you go in, you don’t come out. But, yeah, I think it comes down to the quality of the product, actually. And the second thing is that so many creators, are ecstatic about using it. So, that’s also a major part of it is that people choose to use it because it’s the best.

Tony: And some of that, some of that’s the history and knowing that some of our heroes creatively, would have also used it back in 1980s, 70s.

Judson: Right. Yeah. So it starts with that foundation you mentioned earlier, those films and things like that. I think that certainly plays a part. We also have the Dolby, Creator Lab. It was formerly called the Dolby Institute, but recently renamed. And the Dolby Creator Lab, is sort of our educational arm and reaches out to, creators in all stages of their careers and places like the Tileyard where they would do, you know, educational tutoring and things like that, teaching people how to mix in Dolby Atmos, or work in Dolby Vision. So, yeah, that’s also a big part of it. Working with creators.

Tony: I mean there are 1 or 2 other brands that come to mind who have been kind of ingredient brands that have done a good job of having that presence.

Judson: Intel is one.

Tony: Intel is classically one. I mean, but yeah, more on the hardware side. And then in recent years, Qualcomm also an IP company, but not as well known, I think everyone here would have known the Intel inside campaigns over many decades. And I’m literally counting them on one hand, there aren’t that many in that in that space.

Judson: I think it’s finding a way to tell your own story.. Really. That’s something that is a big part of what I do every day. Right?

Which is trying to find a way to reach consumers, and to let them know that there are all these experiences that they’re having every day, but they may not realise they’re having it.

Right. If you go home and you’ve got a regular, a fairly new smart TV, and you’ve got a streaming platform like Netflix, if you’re watching a lot of that content, particularly new content or bigger content, bigger titles, or already in Dolby Vision, Dolby Atmos, you’re already having that experience. But you may not know that. So I guess it’s my job to make sure that you do.

Tony: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we’ve talked about the company’s history a little bit, innovation. So, you mentioned, I think in our prep you talked about being a family company. So tell us more about that.

Judson: Yeah. Well, as you mentioned, it was founded by Ray Dolby. And for the longest time, it was a family company. I don’t know when it went public exactly offhand, but it wasn’t that long ago, not so long before I joined. And when I first joined, which was seven years ago, that was one of the first things that I really noticed.

There was and still is a very sort of family vibe, if you like, to the company, but also that there were lots of people there who had worked for a very long time. And some of whom had known Ray Dolby, had been to his house, things like that. So that was one of the things that initially appealed to me about it.

Tony: Okay. So that longevity, quality, brand, innovation, family, family values. Don’t know if that’s the right expression.

Judson: Family vibe.

Tony: But definitely, I’ve written down here in capitals, definitely 60 years of ecosystem. So there was always that sense of you needed to be embedded with so many other players. And how do you stay truly global with so much going on in, in different markets?

Judson: Well, so I’m responsible. I can only talk about my responsibilities in this part. But I’m responsible for EMEA and America. So that’s everything from Riyadh and New Delhi. London from Francisco. And I think that’s, what I try to do is just to stay in touch.

Tony: Right.

Judson: I mean the day starts with India, midday is with Europe and then in the evening is with America. So it’s really just about staying in touch and making sure that the things that we’re doing in those regions are localised as much as they need to be, but that they’re still in line with our, you know, voice and tone that we’ve defined as the brand.

Tony: Yeah. And so there’s local relationships there, both in terms of, say, manufacturing partners but also talent. So we’ve mentioned a bunch of artists who are pretty global. But they will be local in different markets around.

Judson: Yeah. So I’ll onboard agencies then oversee their work at least at the beginning. To make sure that they’re getting it, let’s say. And I’ll also help with things like video scripts, out-of-home work, wall signage, you name it. Yeah.

Tony: Well, I wanted to get onto the craft of what you do and even maybe talking about how you work with those agencies and, in terms of, how hands on you are. And, I should say to the audience and anyone listening that this is part of a series where we’re talking to content leaders at different companies, some, but not all, our clients.

And, and we’re trying to work out, in that sort of quarterback role, how do you like to operate and how – I kind of know the answer to this, but for the wider group – tell us how hands on are you? How much do you think somebody who doesn’t have a content background can perform a role like yours?

For example?

Judson: I’m very hands on. So, you mean just working with agencies.

Tony: Or the actual, the work.

Judson: The day to day at work? I’m very hands on with everything. I joined Dolby, seven years ago. And since the majority of that time I’ve been the sole copywriter. So there have been others who have come and gone, but I’ve been the sort of mainstay. So yeah, I’m involved in most things and prefer to oversee just about everything that I can.

Tony: And you had that content background. So you talked a bit about your time in publishing. I happen to know, and I don’t know if Judson wants me to bring this up, I know about your fiction writing, your poetry.

Judson: Oh lord

Tony: I’ve read some of the short stories, which I’m kind of kind of going with, like gothic vibe.

Judson: You have done your research Tony, I expect nothing less.

Tony: Absolutely. Like. Absolutely. So, but you’ve got it running through your veins is what I’m saying. And there are a lot of professionals out there who have worn lots of marketing hats over the years, and there’s definitely an argument to say that you don’t have to always be a specialist in a discipline to be able to manage that well and get great results.

Judson: Yeah. Well, thank you for mentioning the fiction.

[Transition]

Tony: With so many relationships with creators out there, some of them big international stars, does Dolby remain agnostic in terms of the use of AI in work, or you very much – because we hear a lot of pushback from areas like Hollywood and the music industry, you name it, around AI being involved in any way, even the tiniest way.

If anyone recalls the Oscars this year with, the tiniest bit in The Brutalist, it got a lot of play, around the use of AI to make some Hungarian sound accurate, the tiniest tiny part of a very long movie. And so there’s a definite a push back. Do you have to side with those industry forces or you just open minded?

Judson: I don’t know that Dolby has an official policy on AI usage. And I’m not aware of where it’s always being used in the company. I’m sure there’s some explorations or things like that. Certainly a lot of our partners use AI, so, inevitably it’s something that everybody will have to deal with.

Tony: Okay. Interesting. So that’s a subject we can talk about more. Because, yeah, that’s a big thing. Our last event, some people were here at the last event.

Judson: In terms of privacy. I think it’s like if you’re creating copy in the workplace, you need to be using an enterprise account. I think a lot of people don’t really think about it because it’s so ubiquitous now. So it’s like “Oh, I’m just using ChatGPT to do this.” But if you don’t have an enterprise account, I mean, yes, there’s loads of data out there in it would take a lot to find yours.

But it is possible that somebody could if they wanted to. You need to be careful where you’re using it, particularly if it’s something that’s not, ready for consumers yet, if it’s something, you know, behind the scenes, it’s under wraps for now.

So I would just say that people should be careful, with things like that. I think it’s also certainly people do lots of cool creative stuff with it. You could build an agent to write like you, there’s lots of cool imagery out there on the internet that artists are using to create cool things. But in terms of writing, I think you need to go through that difficult phase where you’re, let’s say you’re writing five pages of garbage, right?

But then you get to where you need to be. So it wasn’t a waste of time to go through those five pages. You learned something, you grew, and it brought you somewhere. So I don’t know if I would just want to feed stuff into AI and have it spit out at me and slap it in an email and send it to somebody.

I’m not sure that that would be doing me any good. But also, you work as a copywriter because you want to sound different. You want to differentiate your brand from others. And let’s face it, I mean AI is not particularly good at that.

I mean. It’s not, it’s not great at picking out lines that are just completely different than anybody else’s.

Tony: Well I have to agree with that. But I was going to say you speak like someone who is himself a writer and a published writer and creative writer, but then practically because, yeah, I think a lot of people will be listening to this are all about the results of what comes was usable to their customers or prospects.

But what you’re saying makes sense because you’re saying that you don’t get that differentiated, hopefully unique sometimes, content, by just using the same machine as everyone else.

Judson: Yeah. You mentioned, I mean earlier, this also comes back to working with partners. I mean, we’re all working within the same space. So sometimes whenever you work with a partner and you’re describing the same event or you’re describing some similar technology, they have words that are very similar to the words that you’re using. So it’s really about getting like a fine tooth comb out and finding where you are different, differentiate yourself from their product.

So yeah, I don’t know if it could really help with that or if it can. It would be a lot of investment, time that I could have spent actually just doing it.

Tony: I know, and I wondered, going away from more the day to day work, your writing, editing, overseeing, to the creative side of how people use Dolby. I mean, I’m just throwing this out there. You may not have a company line on this. But, you know, we show a video here, who’s to say in a couple of years time that’s not a piece of media that’s been created by, Midjourney or whatever.

The big kind of video or animated GPT engine for that. And, and your technology is being used to make it sound great and there’s no we don’t know. That could be the conversation.

Judson: It could be.

Tony: It could be.

Judson: I’d be happy to come back.

Tony: So, I wanted to just move on to talk a little bit about client agency dynamics, how you see that. People in your position often have a bit of a philosophy on this, like asking the football manager how they like to play the game. Right? And some people a bit more direct. Other people. Want to do things differently.

How do you see working with agencies and obviously cars on table, like us, but in general agencies, what is what is it that you look for real?

Judson: I think any time you bring on an agency, it’s a big time commitment, right? Because you’ve got to on board them, you’ve got to course correct. And they need to really get it. That and that’s sort of the X factor that you’re pushing for. That’s not so easy to achieve. With Collective Content. No, all joking aside, Collective Content, we started working with them, I believe it was with Dolby Home.

Although they’ve done some other things for us as well. They’ve helped me create, I think, 50 articles snow or approaching 50 articles for Dolby Home. That right Eve? Yeah, yeah, it’s pretty close.

Tony: Eve wrote them all.

Judson: Yes, she really does. Yeah. And they’ve been wonderful. I mean, I can send it to them and then they send it back and it’s ready. So I don’t need to think, very hard about it. And, makes me look very good in meetings where I take full credit for it. I think when it comes to agencies in general, though, there’s a few things.

I mean, one is curiosity. You want an agency to be curious about your brand. You want them to be motivated to do the extra work that they need, the desk research to get it right. You need them to be consistent. I mean, let’s face it, you’re not hiring them to give you excuses and not send things on time.

So they need to they need to understand your brand and create things to your specifications every time, the same way it needs to be consistent and there needs to be some form of chemistry. This is why some of the world’s greatest sports teams can’t win a championship. I mean, they’ve got all the all stars, but they can’t get it together.

So chemistry is really that X-Factor. And that’s something that I found very easy with Collective Content.

Tony: You notice I’m not speaking that much whilst Judson is saying all these nice things, I’m like, just keep going, keep going Judson.

Judson: But it’s true. Every word of it.

Tony: No, thank you. Thank you very much.

Judson: This is being recorded, I suppose.

Tony: Yeah. And, you know, our relationship it does go back to those almost, those initial really dark days of Covid five years ago. And there’ve been a lot of anniversary.

Judson: Has it been that long?

Tony: Yeah, yeah. And not with you, but with the company and it goes back further. Yeah. And, and we worked on, a bunch of case studies to do with, you know, TV and film and all kinds of things.

So I get what you’re saying. And I think there’s a really important part there about unless we’re being asked to, our role isn’t to reinvent your brand voice and how do you do things. We have to play by those guides and those, those rules and, and take that guidance. And that’s something which, I think for everyone that we work with or we reach in any way, we always encourage people to say like, you need you need to have that foundation.

We can help you with that. But we absolutely accept that often you have it already, and then all your agencies have to play to those same rules for that consistency. But I love I love what you said. I know previously you said the three Cs, and you named them. So consistency, the chemistry and the curiosity which is which is a big thing that we care about, at Collective content.

So glad to be in sync with you guys. Where else do agencies miss a trick, do you think? Because you’re working somewhere where you love the work. You’re immersed in it. You want us to be equally, curious about it and understanding of everything. Does that not always happen? Are there other tricks that are missed?

Judson: Yeah, there are. Sometimes when you work with an agency, it’s just not a good fit.

Tony: Right. That’s the ‘all stars’ and the chemistry.

Judson: And yeah, sometimes that’s something to do with the fact that they may be stretched too thin. I mean, there’s lots of reasons, I think, it might be that they’ve been mishandled. I mean in the sense that it’s also on me to explain what it is that I want from the team and also to be a part of the team.

You know, I don’t think of myself as being separate from the team. Maybe I think of myself as being maybe a coach. I guess you know that hurrah, we’re going to do it together and let’s, let’s go win. But I don’t actually get on the field I just shout from the sidelines. But, yeah, I think it is important, though, and it’s not something that’s easily done.

Tony: I’m conscious. I’d like us to have a little bit of Q&A if people are up for that. I wanted to ask you just something about the future, and, you know, like, I guess what’s the big picture? So I’ve heard the expression, yeah, better devices in the market, and you’re constantly raising the bar about what’s possible, but from your position as the content chief, where do you want to get to?

What does better look like in your role? And Dolby.

Judson: I think better would be whenever somebody goes to buy a phone or goes to buy a TV, or is choosing which movie to watch that they look for Dolby.

That’s where we’re driving towards and that’s, that’s what I’d like to see happen.

Tony: Yeah. And I love that, for us, it’s fairly unusual the blend.

Judson: There’s certainly two sides to it. Right. So one is working with partners and the other is speaking to consumers. And you’re sort of straddling the two. But I think that everything that we do also benefits our partners. I mean, we don’t make TVs and we don’t make phones.

Tony: I think I know who you’re referring to when you say such a thing, but I won’t say their name. Anyway, let’s take some questions. If we have some from the floor. Yeah.

Judson: Softball questions only please.

Tony: And I will do some sort of repeating of what you say just for the sake of the recording.

Audience 1: One of the biggest challenges, I find is aligning the business expectations of what content can do or should do with what you, as a content leader, have to try and achieve for the business. So your own objectives. You know, I imagine there’s some very nerdy technical people in your business who believe they need certain things explained about their product, which, you know, shouldn’t be, versus also trying to align with the overall marketing and business strategy.

And I’d like to hear a bit more about your experience and advice on how you’ve navigated that through a company, which is – sounds to be great – but also possibly has a very distinct culture. So I’d love to hear more of that.

Tony: I think, I think we’ve actually got most of that that would have come through. But yeah, please, please go for it.

Judson: Yeah, you’re absolutely right. I mean, it is a corporation. So there are certainly different aspects so you’ve got your business group, you’ve got the technical people involved. You’ve got your product managers who, who would like to hit their targets and things like that. I think the bigger the initiative, the more people, the more cooks there are in the kitchen.

And so seniority becomes an issue. Sometimes, somebody has an opinion which is not in line with your own, but you have to push back as best you can. And as you mentioned, you know, somebody who may be more technically minded would really like to describe cinema in this entirely technical way, let’s say, which is not at all for consumers.

And there is a little bit of work there to be done where you have to explain that we’re not – you have to start with the end audience, right? And you have to be like, we’re talking to consumers here. We’re not talking to somebody at a business trade fair that’s in the broadcast business. We’re not selling somebody a cinema speaker.

That also extends to things like web pages, for example. Sometimes you get somebody who is quite on the business end, you know, they’re working with, salespeople. And for them, it’s just a white paper on, on the website is enough because that’s met all their goals, it’s ticked all their boxes. That’s what their partners, what they feel their partners need to see.

But again, that’s also doing the work of pulling the Google Analytics and showing that nobody scrolls even 25% down the way of the of this page. So I think you have to sort of look at where people are coming from, try to hear what they’re saying, but also try to educate them on, you know, best digital practices, on who the target audience is, where this is going to to live.

I mean, people, I think of them as puzzles, really, but yeah, somebody brings you a puzzle, right? They bring you their starter copy, what they need to achieve. And you’re one of my – the first thing I always ask is who is going to see this? Where is it going to live? What are you trying to achieve? And when do you need this by?

This is usually the worst answer to that one always.

Tony: And to Samad’s question about the business, understanding what you’re trying to achieve, do you feel that there is that understanding where you are?

Judson: Yeah, I think there is. It doesn’t take long to get alignment. It’s just people are siloed, right? People come from their own departments and they have what it is that they’re trying to do. And maybe I’ve worked with them before or maybe I haven’t. So it’s about just trying to bring their goals in line with the marketing goals of our way of looking at things, and the design team on the creative side.

Audience 1: Very comforting answer.

Judson: Yeah, thank you. I hope so. It’s not easy sometimes.

Tony: Other questions. Yeah, please, at the back.

Audience 2: It’s probably two-part actually, it’s how do you feel about current trends? But also, you know, ideas about what to do about it. I think we’re in a world where if you take music, for instance, and sound, you know, more streaming, more compressed file formats, etc. So actually the quality is not as good as we were – Okay, vinyl sales have gone up. Waiting for cassettes to make a comeback actually, but, I thought that was best, but if you think about partnerships, the consumer’s got to care about the sound quality. And I wonder whether now in the world of AI and everything else, whether actually all we really want is cheap, and immediate, and whatever else, you know, you’ve got to get across the so what.

Yeah. I saw a film the other day, Mickey seventeen, lovely Dolby intro, balls bouncing around everywhere, at least quadraphonic sound and everything else. And it was version Dolby-whatever-point-whatever-point. And I was thinking, well, what’s the difference between that and, you know, two versions ago. So how do you feel about the trend in terms of what consumers care about?

And you know, how do you keep getting across that ‘So what?’

Judson: Yeah. It’s tough. I think there are all kinds of consumers. So I think some people, they’re happy with that. They’re happy with it being compressed and whatever they don’t mind. And you have other people who nothing else will do except for like a WAV file, lossless file, something like that. One of the constraints is when you work with partners who don’t already have Dolby Atmos.

Judson: So for example, the intro here is on YouTube, which, at the moment doesn’t support Dolby Atmos. So this is meant to be a Dolby Atmos experience that I’m trying to get across to you, and yet, I don’t have control of all the steps along the way. Right. So you need content. You need streaming. I mean, you need a platform and you need a device.

So you’ve got most of it here, but you’re missing one key ingredient. And that’s another reason that we did the Love More campaign, because that’s a chance for us to tell our own story and to sort of control, the quality, if you like, as much as we can. Yeah. I think it really just comes down to education, which is we’re doing the best we can.

Audience 2: I suppose it’s just getting across that some people don’t know what the missing.

Judson: Yeah, that’s right. I think cinema is a really great place where people can easily experience Dolby at its best. Right. You’ve got Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos, if you’re lucky, at a Dolby Cinema, or you’ve just got a Dolby Atmos experience at the very least.

Tony: And there’s a strong heritage in cinema with the company.

Judson: There is.

Tony: With certain other platforms. Again, I’m not going to name names unless you want to. It’s sometimes it’s a hidden technology, right. It’s not actually, the badge isn’t there. Even though people are experiencing something like Dolby Atmos or Vision.

Judson: Yes. Thanks for bringing that up. The badge is there. But yeah, sometimes it’s, sometimes it’s not, sometimes it’s, under the hood.

Tony: Yeah.

Judson: And that just that just comes down to. Yeah. Partner relations and finding ways like for example, in UI film, where maybe there’s the option to badge, but it’s not as well badge as we would like. I’m choosing my words carefully here. So that’s what you’re trying to use, leverage or explain the value that it would bring to have it better badged.

Tony: Yeah. I’m thinking about the friction between the question around the best technology and the best quality versus the very real partnering dynamic of who gets what and who explains that? So it’s tricky, I get that, especially with so many partners.

Judson: Yeah. But I think nothing beats a real experience, right? Nothing. Nothing beats going to a Dolby Atmos theatre and watching a movie or I think probably one of the best experiences I’ve had is hearing Dolby Atmos in a car. That really is a game changer. It’s completely different than hearing stereo in the car.

Yeah. So it’s, it’s pretty incredible.

Tony: Further questions?

Audience 1: How do I get Dolby Atmos in my car?

Tony: Well there you go.

Judson: Yeah. You’d have to buy a new car. Yeah, I think, I don’t know all the partners offhand. It’s moving extremely quickly, but I think Cadillac just announced that it’s going to be in all their new EVs, and it’s in Mercedes, it’s in some Li auto, which is a company out of China that does electric vehicles, also in the new Rivian.

So yeah, that’s an area where there’s a great deal of growth, at the moment. So yeah, a lot of work around that. At the moment.

Tony: Yeah?

Audience 3: Judson, what’s your favourite film in terms of sound.

Judson: Oh goodness.

Tony: You can’t say Dune I’ve already said that.

Judson: Yeah Dune is a good one.

Tony: No, you can’t say that.

Judson: It’s a really good one. I will though I will. Oh, I will say one thing about Dune, though. Because of course I saw it in Dolby course. And I, of course spent the whole time thinking about how to describe the sound, and but there was a scene where, there’s this big spaceship taking off, and, you know, the music comes in and you could hear those two things equally well, but you could also hear the sand, the sound of the sand moving.

And I thought, that’s something that we don’t do enough. You know, I took my phone out and started making notes, but, you know, so it’s so well balanced. All three of those sounds so well balanced in that scene. So, well, that’s a good one. I don’t know if I have a favourite, but that’s certainly a good one.

Tony: I was reading something the other day about, apparently all of us with the content titles here, that people aren’t doing enough to appeal to all the senses. And I know you can describe it as well as actually experience it, but even appealing to sound and smell and taste, if you want to get your marketing to cut through apparently that’s a big underserved area right now, which I hadn’t thought about for many years.

Tony: Samad.

Audience 1: You’ve mentioned consumers. You know, I come from B2B, background and, how do you – and you also mentioned copywriting, which I see as an advertising term. How do you reach consumers with content? So not adverts, do you try – what are the differences on the advice you have on that? Given that Dolby is a brand that everyone knows about, but maybe not everyone knows what it does, but everyone knows about it.
Because it is in cinemas. You see it up on speakers or things. What specifically do you do to try and reach consumers versus businesses? Is there a philosophy?

Judson: I mean, again, the Love More campaign was our first sort of global initiative to do something like that, where we had the landing page where you could go and experience said. I think turning up at events like South by Southwest and just having a space where people can actually come and experience it for themselves is also something that we like to do.

So South by Southwest is one event. There’s also like the Consumer Electronics Show, which isn’t directly for its consumers, but plays into that. And again, it can be tricky because sometimes it doesn’t always – not all of our partners will. Or something like YouTube. Right. You have to use that as a as a medium to reach people.

So sometimes it doesn’t always carry over. But.

Tony: So interestingly, to build on what Judson was saying. We’ve had experience, actually, sort of pre our relationship with you, I would say, where there was some content which spanned the B2B and B2C space. So I remember one of the things we did was a series of interviews, and this particular piece was about, Das Boot, which was a Sky Deutschland, very recent production around saying it’s very good brands for like four seasons or whatever.

And it was, us doing depth interviews with the producer director and sound engineer.

Judson: Yeah, like the testimonials.

Tony: Yeah, exactly. So, so that would be like a Q&A, much like you would have read in like an Empire magazine, but it was getting across. I mean, like if you’ve if you’ve seen the show, it’s no surprise, like the acoustics of a submarine in the Second World War plays very well to that technology and that experience.

So if you’re watching at home.

Judson: That’s a good point. I hadn’t thought about that. We yeah, we do a lot of testimonials with, like for the Top Gun, there was a testimonial with Tom cruise and the director of the film and things like that, and that’ll play in theatres as well, which hopefully gets people to take a moment to think more about Dolby. So, yeah, we’ve produced a lot of those, with Barbie, with every big film. Pretty much.

Tony: I didn’t get asked in on the Barbie interview.

Judson: I’m sorry.

Tony: Yeah.

Judson: I’ll have a chat with Barbie. Margot.

Tony: Yeah.

Judson: Have her call you.

Tony: Well there’s going to be a sequel isn’t it?

Audience 1: That’s basically the Barbie of plot?

Tony: Yeah. Yeah. No, I haven’t seen it, but I sort of wish I had now. I went the Oppenheimer route, just for the record. Time for another question. Sarah at the back.

Audience 4: We all know that it’s important to use the right channel to get to where your audience is. What channels are exciting for storytelling at the moment. If I have one more person in our organisation come to me and say “I wann do a podcast”, I might have to do something drastic. What do you think is a good channel for telling stories? What’s exciting

Judson: I’m not sure, I know that we just started a TikTok. Which is, something new. For us, it’s new in terms of the voice and tone is a little more relaxed. So I think that that’s important for us. Yeah, I think that’s exciting for us. I don’t know if that’s so exciting for everybody in the audience, because that’s probably something that you’ve long since, utilized.

But I, I do think it is fun to get out there and get youthful with it.

Tony: I was going to say that obviously there’s nothing wrong with podcasts. First of all. But also my question to you, and between what Sarah said is, are you saying that you’re kind of agnostic? It’s whatever it takes to tell the story, and you don’t think in terms of format so much or have I misinterpreted it?

Judson: Well, I don’t, because again, I think that’s something more that. Well, I do, but I think that’s something more that the digital team would do in terms of like reaching consumers more directly in like new, exciting formats. A lot of the work that I do is with the foundational messaging. And videos, some videos that we would have on LinkedIn or that we would have on Instagram, I’ll oversee those, but I’ll work more on the higher level brand stuff like cinema trailers and things like that.

So they don’t let me play with the more exciting formats.

Tony: I’m not sure I believe that. Okay. Yeah, Gavin?

Audience 5: Is there an academic angle to the work you do feeding into the craft of audio and video, and if it is, how do you how do you approach that? Because you almost getting into the people who are going to be the sound engineers of the future. And Dolby might be – they want to create their craft and then project it through to the consumer, which will be through your technology.

So there is a cause-and-effect link between academia and sound engineers of the future. And their position in that supply chain.

Judson: Yeah, that’s a good question. As I mentioned during the speech, or during the talk, just I felt like I was giving a speech, but, yeah, there’s the used to be called the Dolby Institute, but now it’s called the Dolby Creator Lab. They have a grant that’s given to young filmmakers, but also in terms of like the academic side, we have a guy named John Scanlon who’s really great, tireless who spends all of his time – his, background is in sound engineering – and he goes around to different universities, that have started, that have sound engineering programs, and helps them get set up with Dolby Atmos tutorials. So that’s something that’s really important to Dolby, actually, because if we don’t take the time to sort of introduce them or train them, then yeah, it could be to the end.

Right. So, that’s a little dire. But yeah, I know that they’ve set up, tutorials and he’s worked with universities in Denmark. We did a thing in Berlin that I went and saw, a year ago. We work with, I can’t recall the name of it now, but it’s an initiative for women producers.

So it’s all focused on trying to get, more women into the sound engineering space. So it is really important.

Tony: I want to give one shout also for this venue in Tileyard, which I believe has some connections to Dolby, and it’s the kind of campus that fosters that.

Judson: Yeah, this is exactly the kind of place, where you’ll probably see John Scanlon at some point. He’s always travelling around, so he’s he spends a great deal of time doing it.

Tony: Any more for any more? Eve, please ask the final question.

Judson: This is going to be the worst question. This is going to be the most difficult question.

Audience 6: No, it should be an easy one. What’s your favourite kind of copy to write?

Judson: Oh that’s easy. Foundational messaging. So I’ve helped do that for cars, sports, home, cinema. So yeah, I really like that. The, you know, working with the product managers that I mentioned before, they’re all really great. And defining those value propositions, deciding how we’re going to talk about it, coming up with the taglines, user testing, realising we were completely wrong, having to go back to the drawing board.

I think that’s the most creative work that I do, where you can really get really creative with it and dig in. And I think that’s just the best. So yeah, that’s my favorite one to do.

Audience 6: Thanks. So I can I join?

Judson: Sure!

Tony: Love it okay. Thank you. Thank you Judson Hamilton for being our guest today. This is part of a series of events and podcasts that we’re doing. So we will keep on talking to you about what’s coming up next. Which is really exciting. I really hope you’ve enjoyed this. I’m really, really happy to see so many faces that are familiar, new faces as well.

Thanks for coming and ask us anything. You know that there are half a dozen of, the Collective Content crew around. Judson, thank you again very, very much. Thank you for doing this.

Judson: Yeah, it’s been my pleasure. And thanks for coming out.

Bill: This was the Collective Content podcast: Sense-maker Sessions. Let us know what you’d like us to make sense of next.